[Transcript] Episode 426: Creating Community for Clinicians, With Special Guest Melissa Wesner

 

Evan Dumas 

You’re listening to Group Practice Tech, a podcast by Person Centered Tech, where we help mental health group practice owners ethically and effectively leverage tech to improve their practices. I’m your co host Evan Dumas.

 

Liath Dalton 

And I’m Liath Dalton and we are Person Centered Tech.

 

Liath Dalton 

This episode is brought to you by Therapy Notes. Therapy Notes is a robust online practice management and Electronic Health Record system to support you in growing your thriving practice. Therapy Notes is a complete practice management system with all the functionality you need to manage client records, meet with clients remotely, create rich documentation, schedule appointments, and bill insurance all right at your fingertips. To get two free months of Therapy Notes as a new Therapy Notes user, go to therapynotes.com and use promo code PCT.

 

Liath Dalton 

Hello and welcome to Episode 426 of Group Practice Tech: Creating Community for Clinicians. I am so pleased to welcome the wonderful Melissa Wesner as our guest today to talk about creating community. Say Hi, Melissa.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Hello, thank you so much for having me. I love this topic.

 

Liath Dalton 

I love this topic too. And I always love getting to have a conversation with you. And Melissa and I have known each other now for a number of of years and gotten to collaborate on a few different things. Which, collaboration is one part of community that I always really enjoy, and derive a lot of both professional and personal nourishment from.

 

Liath Dalton 

So a little bit about Melissa. She is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor, a brainspotting consultant and founder of LifeSpring Counseling Services, which is a group practice in Maryland. And she’s also the host of the Dreaming and Doing Podcast, which is a podcast for big dreamers and action takers, and a little bit of the lighter side of of life and all of these considerations. So again, it’s awesome having you here, Melissa.

 

Liath Dalton 

And let’s kind of start at the beginning of of where you initiated with real intentionality, creating community for clinicians. Which is that you created a greater Baltimore based clinician community membership for therapists after the pandemic, or as we were coming out the other side of peak pandemic, as I refer to it. So can you tell us a little bit more about how that got started? Like, what the impetus for that was?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, I think it’s been a little bit of a journey. In general, with my group practice, I am regularly offering opportunities for people at my office to get together, and community and collaboration are some of the values at our practice, and so even at my practice, that’s something that I bring in. I let people know, when we’re interviewing people, like this is a place where we really do want people who want to be a part of a community, like we’re not just saying that, we do actually mean it. And so there’s nothing wrong with you, if you are the Lone Ranger, you’re just not going to be the great, you’re not going to be a great fit for our particular office. So that’s something that I’ve always brought to my role as a group practice owner.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And I think it was and you know, I was talking with two people who used to work at my office. And they made a comment to me something like, Well, if you ever start doing networking events, again, let me know. Because before the pandemic, that was the thing that I was doing, a lot of hosting networking events. And I love bringing people together. And so at some point, I started thinking, like, oh, like all of these things would be so fun to bring people together. But then I’m like, How in the world are you going to do that? Like you’re a therapist with a group practice? How are you going to just randomly like, this is your thing that you have events?Like I don’t want to be an event planner, this and I’m not looking for career change.

 

Melissa Wesner 

But it just so happened that around the time that this was happening in my brain, I was also seeing a lot of posts in our local Facebook groups for therapists saying I feel really lonely, I feel really isolated, I feel really disconnected. And so just because I had already been chewing on that, like one day, it just felt like this light bulb went off in my head like people are saying they’re lonely and they’re isolated and they’re disconnected and I want to have fun. Like I work really hard, I want to have some fun, I could use some more fun in my life. And some of the things that I would like to do, I’m probably not going to pursue them just for myself, just because they won’t. Let me just see if there might be interest in forming some kind of a membership, where I will happily plan our activities if we have people who will show up.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And so I’ve put out an interest survey, so to speak in our group saying, Hey, I’m hearing everyone say they’re feeling lonely, isolated, disconnected, blah, blah, blah, I love hosting and organizing gatherings. I love the planning part, that’s not a pain for me. If you would be interested, fill out this form. And so I gathered all this information from people, like what kinds of activities would they be interested in, what about their price range, what about their availability?

 

Melissa Wesner 

I had over 60 people in our local community fill out that interest form.

 

Liath Dalton 

Wow.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And yeah, so I took that to mean there was enough interest to go forward. And so that’s really how this got started. So now we have a, like a local membership program, where now it’s like a year long program, but people pay to be part of this membership for the year. And I literally am the planner of fun for the group. We send everybody the calendar invites, you know, our schedule, what we’re going to be doing, what activities we’ll be doing. And by doing that one, we get to meet new people, it’s a different way of networking. And you get to know people over a consistent period of time.

 

Liath Dalton 

Oh, I love that. So it’s almost like a community cohort where where folks are getting to build relationship and get to know each other while also doing things that are fun and, and enjoyable.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, and one of the bits of feedback that we received on the form that people fill out, a lot of people mentioned that they feel kind of icky, you around networking, like, it just doesn’t feel like a good meaningful interaction, like, Hi, my name is Melissa, this is what I do, this is where I work, here’s my card, you might never use it, we might never talk again after this exchange. And it can feel kind of pressured.

 

Melissa Wesner 

So this way, we’re all having fun, like we’re all showing up with with that intention. And so then you can just organically get to know people. So that way, you get a sense of people’s personality, like, Oh, I really liked that person. I have a client who would be great to work with that person. So if referrals ever do come of that, like you already have a good sense of that person and how they feel in a room, and who might be a good fit for them.

 

Liath Dalton 

Have more bases. So well, you are already touching on it, with feeling disconnected and isolated. And the networking can feel really kind of awkward and icky, when it’s just a here we’re having a networking event, or you’re doing it in a more pressured way, like following a live CE event or conference or something.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Right.

 

Liath Dalton 

But what, are there kind of additional needs beyond those that were showing up in the community, that led you to think that this different approach to traditional networking with would be served well by this?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah. So at that same time, the other thing that was happening in our local community, and I think more nationally as well, right, we were hearing tons of providers saying, I’m burned out, I’m burned out, I’m thinking about leaving the field, can I does anyone have an admin position, I don’t want to work with clients anymore. So we were just seeing a lot of people talk about burnout. And so, one, this is an opportunity to have fun and to, you know, network in a more natural, less pressured way. But it’s also a way for therapists to address their own wellness needs, right?

 

Melissa Wesner  

If we’re thinking about wellness, from a holistic perspective, many of us had been working remotely, so people aren’t getting out and about, they’re not connecting in person. So it gives people a reason to get out of their house and be in person with one another. It gives us an opportunity to have fun and also to practice self care. Like we’re always talking with clients about practicing self care. But even fun, like having a social group, having friends doing things that help you relax and have fun. Those are also part of our self care.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And I think in the mental health field, primarily the people who are working as therapists identify as women. And women are also known for feeling guilty, guilty for taking time out for themselves guilty for spending money on themselves. And so while some of that can still come up for people, right, because it’s still as an investment of their time and some of the resources to attend but it is addressing some of those wellness needs. Like even myself, like we did a candlemaking workshop, I thought it was really cool. I’m the one who created some of the activities. So I’m, I’m invested in making sure I enjoy the activity, too,

 

Liath Dalton 

As you should be.

 

Melissa Wesner 

So I’m like, oh, that sounds cool. Let’s look into that. But am I going to go and sign up for a candle making workshop on my own? Probably not. Does my partner want to go with me? I don’t know. He might not. He has a lot of my ideas. But we’re probably not going to be the couple that goes to a candle making class. Did we have a good time as a group? Did that get me to go? Yes, it definitely did. And it was a good time.

 

Liath Dalton 

I love that. I was gonna ask what some of the activities are and how often, like what the cadence is.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, so we’ve been meeting on a monthly basis. So we have done kayaking, we’ve done a dance class, we’ve done mosaic making vision board workshop paired with some trauma therapy. So those are some, and we’ve gone to different restaurants. So restaurants can be popular, I think. Last time, people said that kayaking was a favorite, as well as like some of the craftier things just because everyone’s kind of sitting around at a table and they’re talking but they’re also busy. So I think that’s one of the reasons why those activities are some of the top favorites that we’ve seen.

 

Liath Dalton 

That, that makes good, good sense. So one question I have, because I got really excited the first time we talked about this community, and one thought that I had at that point in time, because you know, in my role, I’m so often talking to practitioners and practice owners from all over the country, and hearing about these these same sort of themes of disconnect, isolation, burnout, and had the thought of, Oh, I’m so curious to see how this kind of experiment is going to go. And if then that will, perhaps, like make a model that could be replicated in other other communities and locales. So I’m curious if you’ve had conversation with folks, if that’s in the works, like, Where, where is that at this point?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yes. And that is one of the questions that has come in. And I wonder if it was a conversation that we had, I don’t know. It might have been you. Someone had mentioned about like, hey, this could be a thing that other people do. And I do have at least one friend who’s like, hey, Melissa, I’m thinking about, like, I would love to do something like that in my area. So you know, she’s my friend. So it was like, Here’s the forms that I’ve used to survey people, this is what I did, I sent her the steps that I use, and her my forms. And so it’s absolutely something that can be replicated.

 

Melissa Wesner 

So if you know someone would have to love planning, they would have love planning and love,

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yes, I was going to say, what are the requisites?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yes, you know, and that’s just important to note, whether someone is the one initiating that or whether someone is signing up for that, when I did do the initial survey for interest, one of the most common bits of feedback was, Well, isn’t this something that we can do for free? Can we rotate taking turns? And like, again, the the cost that I had on the on the form were like $25, a month, $50 a month, they weren’t like extravagant fees that we were talking about. And even though that was the case, and that fee that you charge does determine what kind of activities can people do, like even right now I’m in planning mode, we’re going to start again, in the fall, some of the activities that I would love to do are more money than the cost of our membership. So we can’t do those.

 

Melissa Wesner 

So but one of the common bits of feedback was what can’t we just take turns and rotate. And so on our page that we have, we are really clear that one, this is labor, right? Like this does take work, energy mine, people on my teams, we’re spending our time that could be utilized elsewhere. And time as we know, is a limited resource in our lives.

 

Liath Dalton 

This is true.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And so you know, we want to be mindful that this does require someone’s labor in someone’s work. But also, in my experience, when people are just taking turns in order to do things for free because we don’t want to spend any money, either one of two things happens: the ball gets dropped, or things take more time than they need to in terms of planning, or you have those one or two people who are like they’re really organized to people who might end up being the people who end up organizing anyway. And then they’re doing it for free, which can also then lead to resentment, like how did I end up the one who’s in charge of this free thing that we’re trying to do for people?

 

Melissa Wesner 

So those are just some things for anyone who’s looking to do that to be mindful of, but absolutely, it can be replicated. And I think it’s really valuable. And in our own group, we have someone who does neurofeedback, she invited me to come out to her office, and she hooked me up to all her bars and told me about it, you know, so that was really cool. I think someone in our groups in person maybe helped someone get into private practice, we have had different referrals, that we’ve been able to send one another, some of those people have also been people who have led workshops.

 

Melissa Wesner 

So that’s the other thing that I think is really cool with this model, right? Like if there’s a cause that you care about, maybe in your practice, you really care about supporting people in the LGBT community or BIPOC folks, right, like, in part of your model, you can say, well, we’re going to support black owned businesses, we’re going to support small businesses, rather than larger chains, or we’re gonna do activities, maybe around cultural awareness. And so I think it’s just a really cool opportunity to also support other therapists in their in your community, other businesses or certain causes in your community. And so those are some things that I find exciting thinking about our ecosystem, and how do we use our money in, in powerful ways?

 

Liath Dalton 

Yes, yes. I love that, that, you know, that we do vote with our, our money. And so making intentional decisions about where, where that is going, what is supporting what that in turn is fostering within the community or detracting from the community. Right. And so having having alignment between the values of the therapists and the community members then be reflected in what you’re supporting, like, it’s a beautiful ripple effect. And kind of generative in that way, which is always a wonderful thing to see. I mean, really curious, because it sounds like there’s a whole cross section of folks from a group owners to like solo practitioners to clinicians who are employed in a group practice or agency. Did you feel like those sorts of different practice contexts all coming together created some good cross pollination?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, and we had an interesting mix, I would say, trying to think on our last group. Well, we’d really did have a mix, we did have people who were like the founders of businesses that might have been like the smaller group. And then we had other people who were working at agencies, people who were in private practice. And it worked really well, I think, in terms of being able to share resources also people sometimes commiserating, but I think that that worked out really well it didn’t seem like there were any, like pockets of people that broke out, it seems like everyone was able to come together cohesively because at the end of the day, the thing that we were coming together for was to have a good time.

 

Liath Dalton 

Wait, it sounds like you really framed it in such a way that it was this is about fun and connection and not a another have to do sort of is very much a want to do and supportive, and not just a business oriented task, but a holistically like you’re doing self care, you’re doing something fun, you’re building relationship, and, perk, you’re also connected to people in your professional community where you’re becoming resources or potential resources for one another.

 

Liath Dalton 

So

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

I was just gonna say you know, me and my two birds one feeder, comment cuz no stones around here. I think this is a multiple birds one feeder or her one community group sort of setup, which is wonderful to see.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yes, they’ve had a really good time, and I’m planning right now. So I’m like, you know, I’m sitting here looking at all of these potential activities for us to do so. It’s fun just to be able to think about the things that we could be doing to get together and this is going be our third round coming up. But the first gathering that we ever did together, we had a rule before our first meeting. And that rule was that we were not going to talk about like our degrees our license or where we worked that we were going to get to know one another as people first.

 

Liath Dalton 

I love that. Yep. Ticket to get back to the core human element. So with, for anyone listening, who is from the Greater Baltimore area, if somehow they are not aware of this group, you can they get involved, and how so? And when does this sort of cut off for the new cohort, community cohort begin?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yes. So our first activity is going to be September 24. I’m still working out those arrangements. But again, I’m going to be collaborating with someone who went on our retreat to Costa Rica. So again, that’s the thing you spend time with people, you get to know them, which means you get to collaborate with them, someone who went on my retreat is probably going to be the person who does our first activity, which is really cool. So our first activity will be September 2024. And I have to, our new website is not up and running, I’ll give you that link. So it’s but Lifespringcounseling.net is my website. And we have a for therapists page. And that’s usually where we include our schedule for the clinician community membership. But we have a sponsor for this year as well. So,

 

Liath Dalton 

Ooh!

 

Melissa Wesner 

He will sign, Yes. So I’ll have a code and I can send that to you. But when people register by September 15, with their code, they’ll get their first month free. And so they can sign up on our website.

 

Liath Dalton 

Okay, perfect. Well, I will absolutely be including that in the show notes. And I’m so glad you mentioned the retreat in Costa Rica, because that’s a perfect segue to talking about that, which I very much want to do. Because, you know, I know you recently hosted this wellness based business oriented retreat in Costa Rica, for our entrepreneurs. And so I would love knowing just sort of your, your framework or the lens through through which you view things and approach things, how you see the connection and an intersection between wealth, wellbeing, and business. And I like foreshadowing here, I think this is a really vital topic for group practice leaders in particular.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, yeah. And you know, sometimes you do a thing, because it’s the thing that you need. Be a group practice owner, right, I think there was something that happened, I, you know, someone I knew, through volunteer work, died unexpectedly this past year. And I had already signed up for the retreat and everything, but it really did, and it was during a really busy time in my practice, but it really just got me thinking about how I spend my time, which is something I would think about before, but it really just made me think about, will I be happy that most of my time is spent working? Or will I be like, you know, there are other ways I would like to spend my time, whether it’s my own, like taking care of my own health or being with my own family.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And so that’s just something that stands out for me just in kind of getting ready for the retreat itself. For anyone who follows Mel Robbins, I know she regularly says wellness is business strategy, right. And so thinking about when you are not doing well, when you’re not getting sleep, when you’re not eating properly, you’re not hydrated, right? Your brain feels fried, you can’t think straight, you can’t focus and even your ability to make decisions. And if you are a group practice owner, your decision making ability is not optimal, when you are stressed out. And also when you’re not taking good care of your body. And so thinking about if I can make sure that I’m getting the sleep that I need and I’m you know, I’m eating regularly and I’m hydrated and not just sleep but that I have downtime for my brain to breathe, that I have my own socialization.

 

Melissa Wesner 

There are some really interesting stats out there about your relationships and your connections and how that contributes to like business success and business opportunities. Right? But if you are too busy to spend time with friends and people and to socialize and build relationships, well then you might not get that benefit, right. And I’m someone who, I wish I was that person was like I love exercise. I’m just not that person. But I also know that when I do do things like walking, which is a little bit more enjoyable for me, I also know that my brain produced, like it can help with problem solving. I know

 

Liath Dalton 

Oh, yeah,

 

Melissa Wesner 

I’m better with idea generation, you know, if you’re having a day where like you’re so stressed out, but then you go for a walk or something, you can see that there’s a different perspective, a different shift in your mood or your energy. And so really just thinking about how we can start taking self care from the backburner, and really moving it to the forefront understanding that it’s not just this thing that I’ll get to one day, right, then doesn’t happen. But understanding that if and when I do those things, it will in fact, produce positive results in my practice, and in my business, it’s not just this optional thing that it really can be done with intention to improve your business and your business strategy.

 

Liath Dalton 

Absolutely. And I think it’s so easy in this kind of like grind culture, which I think work. There’s a shift there or, you know, beginnings of of shifts, and more and more folks, kind of taking the approach that you have to it, which is so needed, and wonderful to see, but obviously, a long, long ways to go. But in the context of that stereotypical kind of grind culture and an entrepreneurship, which very much does, I see, carry over into have the kind of pressure that group practice owners, especially in the earlier part of their practice journey, feel will always like the tendency is to deprioritize anything for yourself. Like I need to be maximizing every waking moment.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah.

 

Liath Dalton 

I’m working on and in the business. Right. And that leaving no breathing room or feeling guilty, if you do take a breath outside of that lane, and that work.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think about as I’ve been, you know, preparing for this retreat and everything thinking about, you know, people often say, I get my best ideas in the shower, right? Like, nobody says, I get my best ideas sitting in front of my computer screen. Right? And yeah, that’s exactly what we force ourselves to do. I’m getting really tired, oh, but you just got to, like, knock out one more thing, right? With the minute you step away, and you like unwind, you go get your shower, all these things are flooding forward. So whether it’s your shower, or the walk, or these different activities, where you’ve actually just, you’re not pressuring your brain to perform, stuff comes up. And I think we devalue that. But yeah, we have these phrases that we use so regularly, that we all know the phrase, I get my best ideas in the shower, because that’s what happens. But we don’t always connect the dots that maybe we need more of that.

 

Liath Dalton 

Absolutely. I’ll say for, for me, it is definitely on the walk. And I have been trying to really build that intentionally into my routine and ritual and that it’s not something that’s negotiable for me to take off my daily list of how I allocate my time. You know, when there’s kind of like, a period of things being more time pressured, or like crunch crunch zone, I’ll call it, if I deprioritize that, take it off the list, I suffer, yeah, holistically, but then I also feel whatever that crisis was, or time sensitive thing that was demanding my attention, that also is not going to be as optimal as it as it could be.

 

Liath Dalton 

I mean, I, on the one hand, always bristle slightly when, because I do this myself, I’m forever being like, well, I can justify doing this because the end result is that it benefits the business or benefits this person who I’m responsible for caring for, or that sort of thing and like, I shouldn’t have to be justifying it in those terms. But the reality is that we, I think, do yes, we are worth doing those those things that are good for our whole beings, whether or not it is beneficial on a business sense, but it’s essential. I think or it’s just, it’s helpful to also know, they’re not in conflict. And so I don’t think it does enter into the realm of toxic positivity or that kind of territory.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And I also think about it as a leader, right? And again, our field as mental health providers, right? If you’re talking to your team, like, it’s important that you’re practicing self care, you know, the work we do is really hard. Make sure you’re taking care of yourself. So you’re like, oh, my gosh, I’m out. But you all go and practice self care, right? You know, and so also from like, a leadership position, right, really modeling that behavior.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And at least for me, right now, I’m reducing my clinical work to be more like really just being more in the management role. And I’m realizing just how much I had been holding, and how much space some things were taking on my calendar. But I think about even when I think I’ve been mindful about my energy, and how I’m showing up, there’s still a question of, you know, like, has my energy and how I’m showing up have been as good as I like to believe, versus now when I’m feeling more spaciousness in my life, because I’ve reduced some things and taken them off my plate. So even as leaders, how are we showing up with our energy? Or we’re like, I’m so tired, I’m so tired. Oh, my gosh, like, what is the energy that we’re bringing to our team?

 

Liath Dalton 

So how did you have kind of an intentional practice around self awareness that led you to know that as a leader, you needed to make these these shifts within your practice and how you were allocating your time within it?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, well, I think two things happened, I regularly think about time being a resource that is limited that we’re never going to get back. So I regularly think about, am I spending my time in the way that I want to in the grand scheme of my life, like when I look back on my life, am I going to be glad that this is how I spend my time? No. And so when I think my volunteer friend passed away unexpectedly, and she was the picture of health, she was doing good things in the world, and you know, passed away, due to unfortunate circumstances really got me thinking, like, I’m really busy right now, I am not exercising like I want. I’ve been working so late, I haven’t even been having dinner with my partner at night, because it’s just been a really busy week or two. And thinking, like, that’s not what I want. Like, that’s not what I want. And even if this is just a season that I have to get through with the busyness of work, I still don’t want it. And I don’t want that to continue.

 

Melissa Wesner 

So that really got me thinking about, I don’t want to be putting myself on the back burner. And I don’t want to be sending myself the message that I get, you know, the little bit of fumes that are left in my tank, right? Like, I do want to send the message to myself, that I’m going to give myself my time when I have the most energy, meaning in the morning, when I go walking in my driveway. You know, that’s when I am giving myself the best of myself. And I’m not letting anything else come before that. So that really was a moment that got me thinking. And also just thinking about times where there are things that are stressful happening with my team, if I’m in meetings with clients, it’s a little bit harder to focus if I’m thinking about other things. And also that if I want to grow my practice, then like I can’t be tied up in all these meetings that I’m in either. And I so I definitely have had a few tears over the summer, I’m thinking about reducing my client work. But I’ve had those conversations now. And even in having those conversations and making this transition, I can feel that spaciousness already, of just being able to have new ideas, feel excited about them. And I’m realizing also how busy I had been, without maybe quite understanding just how much of a toll even though I knew I was busy, I think they didn’t realize just how much of an impact it was having on me.

 

Liath Dalton 

Well as as a friend, I love that you had that self awareness and that you also then took action on it and made those shifts. Because I think that can be like, from my vantage point, something and own personal experience, can be one of the harder pieces is when to have that awareness, not then still kicking the can down the road, and saying that sort of well, this is a season I just need to get through, that I will prioritize those things that are really important to me, when x happens or you know setting these these markers that are kind of arbitrary. So do you have guidance on how fellow group practice owners who are listening to this can and can take that that leap between having the realization and taking action?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yes, one I love what you just said. And it’s something that I think about, you know, and I say to my clients, but also was a topic that came up at our retreat, I tell my clients, like look at your calendar and look at your bank account, because the way that you spend your time and the way that you spend your money are going to give you information about the things that are most important to you, or the things that you have been prioritizing. You know, because I think sometimes we’re like, Well, I can’t do that I don’t have the time, I can’t do that. I don’t have the resources. But we we make time and we spend our money on the things that are most important to us. And if we look at, just do an evaluation, look at your calendar, look at your bank account, where is your money going? Where is your time going on your calendar? And when you see that, are you like, that’s awesome, I love what my calendar looks like, that is my I deal schedule, man, I’m just living my best life right now. Or you know what, that is the best money I’ve ever spent. I’m so glad I’m spending money on that every week or every month, if that’s the case, awesome.

 

Melissa Wesner 

But if you are looking at your calendar going, all of that is a time suck. I’m spending my time and my energy on tasks that drain me and fill me with dread, rather than activities that bring me life and joy and excitement. That can be a place to start to say what is not feeling good on my calendar, what don’t I love looking at in terms of how I’m spending my money, maybe it’s like I’m eating out a lot. And that’s not really what I want. But I’m eating out a lot because I feel like I don’t have time I’d really rather be cooking at home. And so really just maybe starting there to say what are some small tweaks that I can make to make sure that I’m creating time or prioritizing time for things that bring me joy, prioritizing rest and downtime prioritizing time with my family or my friends? Or maybe I don’t love that I’m spending my money on takeout, I’d really rather be doing something else with it will how do I start making some of those small tweaks?

 

Liath Dalton 

Right. Incremental, just like everything in in this space, I think, you know with with practice leadership and leadership in general and and managing our own growth and actual self actualization, it’s not a from from first realization to, to fully realized, right? It’s it’s a process and a journey. But we don’t get anywhere on it if we don’t take a step and be in in movement in some way. So I’m really curious kind of connecting all of all of that together to finding out a little bit about what some of the similarities or differences you found between the needs of therapists in your community and the needs of the entrepreneurs on on the retreat.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, I think that there were a lot of similarities. So you heard me say that in our local Facebook group, we were talking about a lot of people saying that they felt lonely and disconnected. And during the time that I was preparing for the retreat, I saw an interesting stat on entrepreneurs. And it said that 73% of entrepreneurs reported feeling lonely, right? Because again, if you are, let’s say a group practice leader or the leader of a business, like, you know, who understands the responsibility, you feel the weight on your shoulder, that maybe the financial decisions you have to make, and you can’t just talk to anybody about it, because they might not understand they might not be the appropriate people to talk to right? And so it can feel really lonely. So they too, I think, in our retreat wanting community.

 

Melissa Wesner 

But also, one of the interesting things that came up is as we were looking at the pandemic, and also that’s when I saw it, I started to see clinician say that they were feeling lonely and isolated, and so on. But really, we got talking about our wellness practices before the pandemic. And now and a lot of what we found is that so many of our things that kept us well and kept us healthy before the pandemic got interrupted, and still, we’re not yet back in place, right? So, if we had been out and about spending time with our friends and doing different activities, or maybe we were in a certain exercise routine, then all of that got uprooted. And even though we’re kind of on the other side of things, sorry Covid’s still kind of floating out there. But even though we’re in a different place now many of those wellness practices, they haven’t gone back to where they were before and so people are still in a place of trying to get back into, maybe not the same routine, but figuring out how do I reconnect with people again, how do I get back into my wellness routines that were serving me before?

 

Liath Dalton 

Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s the question I think that comes up for for a lot of folks in my circle, too, is being able to identify how to find the new thing. If if going back to the old thing, or, you know, we’re in a different place, then than we were four years ago. And so I think I’ve seen some folks who will try to just go back to exactly what they were doing before. And that doesn’t feel like the right fit, where it’s meeting current needs. And then it can be easy to like, fall off again, right? And be like, Oh, well, that doesn’t work for me anymore. So that willingness to then identify, well, what what works for me, where I am now with what is important to me, and what my needs are, what’s gonna be nourishing?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, and I think even with the retreat, really, it was a reminder of like, it is okay to practice self care for ourselves, right? Because, again, therapists in the community, you know, they’re worried about their clients, taking care of the clients. Again, many therapists are females. So they’re thinking about how do I take care of my clients, but also, I have my families, and I have to take care of them. It’s like caretaking role comes out.

 

Melissa Wesner 

And, uh, one of the interesting themes that came up on our retreat is like, I’m going to try to step back from being a caretaker, right? Because if you are, let’s say, a group practice owner, for example, or I don’t know, if you have a business and you have employees, right, you have people that you have to care for. And so, you know, this is a retreat for them. But we can still fall into those caretaking tendencies. And how do we just say, You know what, it’s okay for someone else to take care of me today. It’s okay, I’m here on this retreat for me, I’m just going to step back and I’m going to try to not be in my caretaker role, and I’m going to receive, I’m going to allow myself to receive I’m going to allow someone else to take care of me in this role. And so sometimes we need that reminder, too, that it’s okay for us to receive not just give all the time. And it’s okay for us to enjoy what it feels like when someone else is taking care of us.

 

Liath Dalton 

Oh, amen. I love I love. Is there one sort of question that you would ask fellow group practice owners who are listening to this that you would suggest they ask them themselves that might help prompt bringing in more intentional holistic wellness that supports them and their practice?

 

Melissa Wesner 

Yeah, I guess my question would be, if you didn’t get caught up in all the objections to your self care, or objections to living the life that you want to be living if you didn’t get caught up in but, but, but, but I can’t do that. Because whatever, if you didn’t get caught up in all of those objections, what would your self care look like, or what would your ideal day look like? If you didn’t get caught up in all the things from your brain telling you that that’s not possible?

 

Liath Dalton 

That is perfect. I hope, I hope that everyone will ask themselves that and examine that and let themselves sit with it too. Melissa, as always, it is a pleasure talking with you. And I appreciate all all the good you bring into your community and and to this world. So thank you for sharing a bit of that with all of us today. And I look forward to future conversations, no, no doubt. For all of our listeners, you can get connected with Melissa and the good thing she’s doing by checking out the links in the show notes, so don’t miss those. We’ll talk to you next time.

 

Melissa Wesner 

Thank you.

 

Liath Dalton 

This has been Group Practice Tech, you can find us at PersonCenteredTech.com. For more podcast episodes, you can go to personcenteredtech.com/podcast or click podcast on the menu bar.